Question about how to make a living from open source

[tzahi ml]

Hi All,
I am in need of assistance.

I am currently working as a freelancer coding stuff in a company.
However, although I am making good living, this does not scale much (and
promotion is out of the question :) ).

Anyway, I am looking for ways to scale.

One of the ideas that were given to me is to compile couchbase or postgres
and distribute the binaries with a support license. Find 4-5 customers
which pay big bucks and make a living. Though, not much scale there either,
unless i start taking employees...

Another idea is taking employees but people in the business are telling me
i am better off staying a freelancer than taking employees. Not sure what
is true here.

One other idea I had is hosting complex solutions for sites. Like
postgresql couchbase etc... which is difficult for the average joe and
making it scale like heroku etc...

Can someone give me a clue?

Thanks!

Tzahi Fadida.

[Jonathan Ben Avraham]

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:15:40 +0300
Subject: Question about how to make a living from open source
Hi All,I am in need of assistance.
I am currently working as a freelancer coding stuff in a company.
However, although I am making good living, this does not scale much (and promotion is out of the question :) ).
Anyway, I am looking for ways to scale.

Be ready to drink a lot of coffee, and say goodby to your significant
others (family).

One of the ideas that were given to me is to compile couchbase or postgres and distribute the binaries with a support license. Find 4-5 customers which pay big bucks
and make a living. Though, not much scale there either, unless i start taking employees...

Customers that pay big bucks work with suppliers who have big bucks.
That's not you, so forget it. That is, large customers work with large
suppliers. For example, you you have a quality solution, but a larger
supplier has only a partial, poor quality solution, then the company with
big bucks will buy from the larger supplier with the poor quality, partial
solution and not you. That's how the business world works. Big business
works with big business, small business works with small business. The
size equation trumps quality and availability.

Another idea is taking employees but people in the business are telling me i am better off staying a freelancer than taking employees. Not sure what is true here.

When you take employees you need to have enough money to pay them for at
least two-months ahead. You will need to incorporate, and hire an office
manager/secretary. Your employees get paid first. If there is any money
left afterwards then you might get paid. Is this what you want to do?
That's how you want to risk your savings? Having employees is like having
children. You have to guide them, instruct them, motivate them and wipe
their noses. Are you built for that?

One other idea I had is hosting complex solutions for sites. Like postgresql couchbase etc... which is difficult for the average joe and making it scale like heroku
etc...
Can someone give me a clue?

Yes. Reverse the process. Instead of wanting to "scale" and then looking
for an idea, work on the idea first. If you have a great idea for a new
technology or service then look for partners. And if you don't have a
really great idea, forget about trying to scale.

That's not my 2 cents speaking. That's my NIS 600K debt speaking.

- yba

Thanks!
Tzahi Fadida.

[David Suna]

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:15:40 +0300
Subject: Question about how to make a living from open source
Hi All,I am in need of assistance.
I am currently working as a freelancer coding stuff in a company.
However, although I am making good living, this does not scale much
(and promotion is out of the question :) ).
Anyway, I am looking for ways to scale.

A different way to say the same thing:
You can choose to be an employee in which case your earning potential is
limited to what the current market value of someone with your skill set
is. Doesn't "scale" but does provide you with benefits, a "guaranteed"
salary and a corporate culture for advancement.

Or, you can choose to work for yourself. This have several variations:
1. Working as a contractor - Generally this allows you to charge a
higher hourly rate. The down side is you have to provide your own
benefits, accounting, etc. You also lose the stability of it being
someone else's job to generate work for you. This also does not "scale"
as you are limited to the number of hours a day you can work and the
going market rate for the skill set you have.

2. Produce a product - Build a better mouse trap and sell it. This is
not necessarily in line with the open source way of doing things.
However, it is a common business plan. This has the potential to "scale"
as you can develop the product once and sell it many times. You have the
significant risk of startup and development costs and whether the
product will be successful.

3. Provide a service - Along the lines of the idea you suggested of
hosting complex solutions. This is similar to being a contractor but the
focus is on marketing the service you provide rather you and your skill
set. This only has the potential to scale by having other people
(employees or contractors) provide the service in the name of your
company. Your profit is the cost you can charge the client minus the
cost of the worker actually doing the work. You also take on the
responsibility of generating enough work to cover the costs of the
worker(s) and yourself. With all of the joys that Yonatan described in
his email.

[tzahi ml]

It appears not to sound that fun when you tell it like it is.
I am just closing a startup, not too keen to start a new one right away.

A startup has no business sense.
However, I was hoping there is a middle ground, a business sense and a
certain risk.
The current idea I have is to freelance until I figure this out.
Perhaps mix freelancing and a making a risky business.

Is there some freelance/small company names with successful models in open
source in Israel?
It is hard to believe there is no middle ground, either freelance, be
employed or start a startup.
I have no trouble with slow progress but the aim is to scale eventually...

Post by David Suna

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:15:40 +0300

Subject: Question about how to make a living from open source
Hi All,I am in need of assistance.
I am currently working as a freelancer coding stuff in a company.
However, although I am making good living, this does not scale much (and
promotion is out of the question :) ).
Anyway, I am looking for ways to scale.

You can choose to be an employee in which case your earning potential is
limited to what the current market value of someone with your skill set is.
Doesn't "scale" but does provide you with benefits, a "guaranteed" salary
and a corporate culture for advancement.
1. Working as a contractor - Generally this allows you to charge a higher
hourly rate. The down side is you have to provide your own benefits,
accounting, etc. You also lose the stability of it being someone else's job
to generate work for you. This also does not "scale" as you are limited to
the number of hours a day you can work and the going market rate for the
skill set you have.
2. Produce a product - Build a better mouse trap and sell it. This is not
necessarily in line with the open source way of doing things. However, it
is a common business plan. This has the potential to "scale" as you can
develop the product once and sell it many times. You have the significant
risk of startup and development costs and whether the product will be
successful.
3. Provide a service - Along the lines of the idea you suggested of
hosting complex solutions. This is similar to being a contractor but the
focus is on marketing the service you provide rather you and your skill
set. This only has the potential to scale by having other people (employees
or contractors) provide the service in the name of your company. Your
profit is the cost you can charge the client minus the cost of the worker
actually doing the work. You also take on the responsibility of generating
enough work to cover the costs of the worker(s) and yourself. With all of
the joys that Yonatan described in his email.
--
David Suna
_______________________________________________
Linux-il mailing list
http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il

[Aviram Jenik]

It's not clear (at least, not to me) what you're asking.

You want something that has no risk, does not require too much hard work,
but pays well. And then you want to further restrict the search space of
this invisible universe to open source only. How is that "middle ground"?

Decide which of these constraints you're willing to free, and perhaps
people can help you with some experience. If there was an open source way
to make money easily with no risk and little work I promise you we wouldn't
be telling you about it since we would be too busy drinking cocktails in
our in our own private island in the Caribbeans.

Post by tzahi ml
It appears not to sound that fun when you tell it like it is.
I am just closing a startup, not too keen to start a new one right away.
A startup has no business sense.
However, I was hoping there is a middle ground, a business sense and a
certain risk.
The current idea I have is to freelance until I figure this out.
Perhaps mix freelancing and a making a risky business.
Is there some freelance/small company names with successful models in open
source in Israel?
It is hard to believe there is no middle ground, either freelance, be
employed or start a startup.
I have no trouble with slow progress but the aim is to scale eventually...

Post by David Suna

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:15:40 +0300

Subject: Question about how to make a living from open source
Hi All,I am in need of assistance.
I am currently working as a freelancer coding stuff in a company.
However, although I am making good living, this does not scale much
(and promotion is out of the question :) ).
Anyway, I am looking for ways to scale.

You can choose to be an employee in which case your earning potential is
limited to what the current market value of someone with your skill set is.
Doesn't "scale" but does provide you with benefits, a "guaranteed" salary
and a corporate culture for advancement.
1. Working as a contractor - Generally this allows you to charge a higher
hourly rate. The down side is you have to provide your own benefits,
accounting, etc. You also lose the stability of it being someone else's job
to generate work for you. This also does not "scale" as you are limited to
the number of hours a day you can work and the going market rate for the
skill set you have.
2. Produce a product - Build a better mouse trap and sell it. This is not
necessarily in line with the open source way of doing things. However, it
is a common business plan. This has the potential to "scale" as you can
develop the product once and sell it many times. You have the significant
risk of startup and development costs and whether the product will be
successful.
3. Provide a service - Along the lines of the idea you suggested of
hosting complex solutions. This is similar to being a contractor but the
focus is on marketing the service you provide rather you and your skill
set. This only has the potential to scale by having other people (employees
or contractors) provide the service in the name of your company. Your
profit is the cost you can charge the client minus the cost of the worker
actually doing the work. You also take on the responsibility of generating
enough work to cover the costs of the worker(s) and yourself. With all of
the joys that Yonatan described in his email.
--
David Suna
_______________________________________________
Linux-il mailing list
http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il

_______________________________________________
Linux-il mailing list
http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il

[tzahi ml]

Hi Aviram,
As it is an email, it is difficult to convey details and it can be
confusing.

I am not restricting anything, but since this is a linux/open source
mailing list I asked it with this subject.
I worked on proprietary code for the last 8 years so I have no problem with
proprietary or open source.
I do think there are merits to start with an open source project since it
is a good starting point (otherwise you start from scratch). Also, I am not
saying I am restricted to writing open source code.

I would like to create a product (as i wrote earlier i just closed my 2nd
or 3rd startup depends how you look at it) eventually but I am trying to be
realistic. Start again more slowly.

Starting again from scratch: I am currently a freelancer by choice. This is
my first time I have worked this way. I am actually being payed well but I
do want something which scales and sustainable in the future and that will
be turned into a company (somehow), preferably self funded by effort
instead of investments. I am not looking to make big bucks but to have more
control of the direction it takes. I worked for huge companies which wasted
my time by writing the same thing over and over for stupid reasons. I got
payed well but I feel I can do more.

I am looking for an advise to jumpstart. A place to start. Naturally, my
first thought was ask in this mailing list since there are people with open
source and business experience here. Perhaps there is a sustainable
specific format with other companies examples etc... Everyone says, don't
take employees, don't start a startup, don't be independent, don't do that,
don't do this. But what can I do?... :)

I guess this is too general and I should be more specific but this is my
current state so I am telling it as it is. I can write about my attempts
but I don't have any definite direction at this time so I am not sure they
are relevant.

Post by Aviram Jenik
It's not clear (at least, not to me) what you're asking.
You want something that has no risk, does not require too much hard work,
but pays well. And then you want to further restrict the search space of
this invisible universe to open source only. How is that "middle ground"?
Decide which of these constraints you're willing to free, and perhaps
people can help you with some experience. If there was an open source way
to make money easily with no risk and little work I promise you we wouldn't
be telling you about it since we would be too busy drinking cocktails in
our in our own private island in the Caribbeans.

Post by tzahi ml
It appears not to sound that fun when you tell it like it is.
I am just closing a startup, not too keen to start a new one right away.
A startup has no business sense.
However, I was hoping there is a middle ground, a business sense and a
certain risk.
The current idea I have is to freelance until I figure this out.
Perhaps mix freelancing and a making a risky business.
Is there some freelance/small company names with successful models in
open source in Israel?
It is hard to believe there is no middle ground, either freelance, be
employed or start a startup.
I have no trouble with slow progress but the aim is to scale eventually...

Post by David Suna

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:15:40 +0300

Subject: Question about how to make a living from open source
Hi All,I am in need of assistance.
I am currently working as a freelancer coding stuff in a company.
However, although I am making good living, this does not scale much
(and promotion is out of the question :) ).
Anyway, I am looking for ways to scale.

You can choose to be an employee in which case your earning potential is
limited to what the current market value of someone with your skill set is.
Doesn't "scale" but does provide you with benefits, a "guaranteed" salary
and a corporate culture for advancement.
1. Working as a contractor - Generally this allows you to charge a
higher hourly rate. The down side is you have to provide your own benefits,
accounting, etc. You also lose the stability of it being someone else's job
to generate work for you. This also does not "scale" as you are limited to
the number of hours a day you can work and the going market rate for the
skill set you have.
2. Produce a product - Build a better mouse trap and sell it. This is
not necessarily in line with the open source way of doing things. However,
it is a common business plan. This has the potential to "scale" as you can
develop the product once and sell it many times. You have the significant
risk of startup and development costs and whether the product will be
successful.
3. Provide a service - Along the lines of the idea you suggested of
hosting complex solutions. This is similar to being a contractor but the
focus is on marketing the service you provide rather you and your skill
set. This only has the potential to scale by having other people (employees
or contractors) provide the service in the name of your company. Your
profit is the cost you can charge the client minus the cost of the worker
actually doing the work. You also take on the responsibility of generating
enough work to cover the costs of the worker(s) and yourself. With all of
the joys that Yonatan described in his email.
--
David Suna
_______________________________________________
Linux-il mailing list
http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il

_______________________________________________
Linux-il mailing list
http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il

[Shlomi Fish]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Shlomi Fish <shlomif-l9KC3OxpiO/***@public.gmane.org>
Date: Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 11:49 AM
Subject: Fw: Question about how to make a living from open source
To: shlomif-***@public.gmane.org




Begin forwarded message:

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 11:48:01 +0300
From: Shlomi Fish <shlomif-l9KC3OxpiO/***@public.gmane.org>
Cc: "linux-il-NSemkxREmS1YZAO8hgG6+***@public.gmane.org" <linux-il-NSemkxREmS1YZAO8hgG6+***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: Question about how to make a living from open source


Hi Tzahi,

On Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:15:40 +0300

Post by tzahi ml
Hi All,
I am in need of assistance.
I am currently working as a freelancer coding stuff in a company.
However, although I am making good living, this does not scale much (and
promotion is out of the question :) ).
Anyway, I am looking for ways to scale.

I've written about some business models for web-based publishing here:

https://plus.google.com/+ShlomiFish/posts/MRLntf3xu5Y

Some of them have correspondence to open source. See:

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Alternative profitable business models for Web-based commerce.

This is a list of 5 business models for web-based commerce that do not
require
depending on advertising:


1. Collect donations or ask for money for public appearances in advance -
see
https://plus.google.com/+ShlomiFish/posts/GUpTuA6641x .

2. The Flickr model - charge people for a premium model.

3. The Bandcamp/Humble-Bundle model - pay what you want (people can be very
generous).

4. The cloud model - pay for hosting or a MMORPG account
(World-of-Warcraft/etc.) or whatever.

5. Pay to liberate - collect money to make a CC-by-nc-sa work CC-by/etc.

6. Sell merchandise -

.

7. One can also set up non-intrusive ads like those provided by
http://projectwonderful.com/ , but I doubt they'll be profitable.
Another suggestion I can give you is to work a lot on publicity, social
networking, etc. - both in real life and in Internet-based social media
venues.

See:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Objectivism/comments/2c1fue/the_importance_of_human_networking/

A chauffeur with whom I stroke a conversation at a McDonalds restaurant
close to
Heathrow airport in London told me he now gets most of his customers from
social media outlets such as Facebook or Twitter. The newfound possibilities
from real-life and electronic social networking are very much reflected in
stories here:

* http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Buffy/A-Few-Good-Slayers/

There are plenty of online communities for various topics on the Internet.
Find some of them that you are interested in and contribute to them. There
are
Reddit subreddits, wikis (Wikipedia, Wikia wikis, etc.), IRC channels on
Freenode/etc., Facebook groups and pages, Twitter feeds, mailing lists, etc.
and you should be able to contribute to some of them.

The greatest threat for any business is obscurity.

You may also wish to invest some money in buying ads, commercials,
promotions or whatever - nothing wrong with that and this money may be well
worth it in publicity.

Finally note the Carpe Diem / "He who saved one man has essentially saved
the
world entire principle" - don't try to maximise your audience immediately.
Invest time in each and every friend and recipient:

* http://www.shlomifish.org/humour.html#carpe_diem

Finally, I should note that your English does not sound idiomatic (although
I
admit I heard much worse). You should work on improving it. See my advice
for
how to do that here:

* https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hackers-il/conversations/messages/5143

Regards,

Shlomi Fish

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
Beginners Site for the Vim text editor - http://vim.begin-site.org/

God helps them that help God help them.
— http://shlomif.livejournal.com/66017.html

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .


--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
What does “Zionism” mean? - http://shlom.in/def-zionism

Harry: Mr. Mumford, I hereby propose my friend, the beautiful Hermione.
Hermione: Ahem
 actually I kinda have a bad hair day today, so I think
your assistant should be the beautiful Harry (Potter!) here.
Harry: Very well, I shall be the beautiful assistant.
— http://is.gd/zsmond

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .

[tzahi ml]

Hi Shlomi,
As always, thanks for the comprehensive tips.

A big question that troubles me is if you have to always incorporate for a
cloud/on premise business.
The last incorporation (i am now closing) was costly but the lawyers keep
pushing you to incorporate (hopefully not from a self serving interest).
On one hand, I am currently an independent and I would prefer to stay this
way until the cash justifies an incorporation. OTOH, I want to keep my bank
account safe from law-suites as much as possible.

Would love to hear comments about this...

Thanks!

Post by Shlomi Fish
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 11:49 AM
Subject: Fw: Question about how to make a living from open source
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 11:48:01 +0300
Subject: Re: Question about how to make a living from open source
Hi Tzahi,
On Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:15:40 +0300

Post by tzahi ml
Hi All,
I am in need of assistance.
I am currently working as a freelancer coding stuff in a company.
However, although I am making good living, this does not scale much (and
promotion is out of the question :) ).
Anyway, I am looking for ways to scale.

https://plus.google.com/+ShlomiFish/posts/MRLntf3xu5Y
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Alternative profitable business models for Web-based commerce.
This is a list of 5 business models for web-based commerce that do not
require
1. Collect donations or ask for money for public appearances in advance -
see
https://plus.google.com/+ShlomiFish/posts/GUpTuA6641x .
2. The Flickr model - charge people for a premium model.
3. The Bandcamp/Humble-Bundle model - pay what you want (people can be very
generous).
4. The cloud model - pay for hosting or a MMORPG account
(World-of-Warcraft/etc.) or whatever.
5. Pay to liberate - collect money to make a CC-by-nc-sa work CC-by/etc.
6. Sell merchandise - http://youtu.be/oNZove4OTtI .
7. One can also set up non-intrusive ads like those provided by
http://projectwonderful.com/ , but I doubt they'll be profitable.
Another suggestion I can give you is to work a lot on publicity, social
networking, etc. - both in real life and in Internet-based social media
venues.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Objectivism/comments/2c1fue/the_importance_of_human_networking/
A chauffeur with whom I stroke a conversation at a McDonalds restaurant
close to
Heathrow airport in London told me he now gets most of his customers from
social media outlets such as Facebook or Twitter. The newfound
possibilities
from real-life and electronic social networking are very much reflected in
* http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Buffy/A-Few-Good-Slayers/
There are plenty of online communities for various topics on the Internet.
Find some of them that you are interested in and contribute to them. There
are
Reddit subreddits, wikis (Wikipedia, Wikia wikis, etc.), IRC channels on
Freenode/etc., Facebook groups and pages, Twitter feeds, mailing lists, etc.
and you should be able to contribute to some of them.
The greatest threat for any business is obscurity.
You may also wish to invest some money in buying ads, commercials,
promotions or whatever - nothing wrong with that and this money may be well
worth it in publicity.
Finally note the Carpe Diem / "He who saved one man has essentially saved
the
world entire principle" - don't try to maximise your audience immediately.
* http://www.shlomifish.org/humour.html#carpe_diem
Finally, I should note that your English does not sound idiomatic
(although I
admit I heard much worse). You should work on improving it. See my advice
for
*
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hackers-il/conversations/messages/5143
Regards,
Shlomi Fish
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
Beginners Site for the Vim text editor - http://vim.begin-site.org/
God helps them that help God help them.
— http://shlomif.livejournal.com/66017.html
Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
What does “Zionism” mean? - http://shlom.in/def-zionism
Harry: Mr. Mumford, I hereby propose my friend, the beautiful Hermione.
Hermione: Ahem
 actually I kinda have a bad hair day today, so I think
your assistant should be the beautiful Harry (Potter!) here.
Harry: Very well, I shall be the beautiful assistant.
— http://is.gd/zsmond
Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
--
------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
Chuck Norris helps the gods that help themselves.
Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
_______________________________________________
Linux-il mailing list
http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il