Which company or individual can sponsor me on a summer trip to Europe?

[Shlomi Fish]

Hi all,

I wish to go on a Summer trip to Europe (flight to Istanbul and then taking
trains) where I:

1. Eat good food and drinks.

2. Have a good company of people I know from Freenode or other social media
outlets, as well as people I just met.

3. Have clean, creative, fun.

At age 37 (I'm 1977 born) I want to start living a little.

For this I need the sponsorship of a company or individual. What I will
give in exchange is:

1. Being proud to be sponsored by the company and speaking its praise.

2. Donate some of the revenues from my activities, such as Stand-up
philosophy ( https://plus.google.com/+ShlomiFish/posts/GUpTuA6641x ),
revenues from screenplays and stories, donations, paid invitations, etc.
back to the sponsor.

3. Contribute to the company's social media presence.

----

For now I think I'll need between 200,000 USD and 500,000 USD, as well as
finding a paid escort/guide. It's also first-come-first-served.

If you or your company can do that, please contact me via E-mail at
shlomif-l9KC3OxpiO/***@public.gmane.org or GChat/GTalk/GoogleHangouts at shlomif-***@public.gmane.org .

For more information, see my essay and links:

https://plus.google.com/+ShlomiFish/posts/i5Z8XdqTdwE

This took an unexpected turn as it progressed.

Regards and thanks,

-- Shlomi Fish

[geoffrey mendelson]

Post by Shlomi Fish
Hi all,
I wish to go on a Summer trip to Europe (flight to Istanbul and then

ROTFL.

Not only do I not think this belongs on this list, but it's ridiculous.

If I were in a position to sponsor anyone for more than a felafel at a
stand up kiosk, I would consider this so unreasonable that it's just
laughable. As I said, IF I were going to fund someone, I might consider
a plan that includes 2 $1,000 airplane tickets, and about $1,000 a week
for hotel, food, transportation within each country and train fare to
the next country, for a week in a country to give 4-5 FOSS lectures, and
then move one. You probably could start in the Irish Republic and bounce
along to the Russian Republic which would take around 15-20 weeks.

Or you could the same thing for about 1.5 times the money in the US,
which would take an entire year, one week per state.

But not just for a vacation, or for sponsorship opportunity, you would
have to show off your operating system that lots of people use, or your
office suite, Nobel Prize, or Olympic Medal.

No use writing an editor, no one is interested in paying RMS to speak,
especially since he, as president of the FSF, ex ex*/officio/*
<https://www.google.co.il/search?es_sm=122&q=ex+officio&spell=1&sa=X&ei=yFi2U4mZIIK00wXM_IDQDg&ved=0CBkQvwUoAA>,
announced he was supporting the Palestinian Boycott of Israel.

Geoff.

[Shlomi Fish]

Hi Geoffrey,

hope you had a great Shabbath by the time you're reading it.

You're raising some interesting points which I'd like to address, and I
apologise if I weren't clear and explicit before.



On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 10:35 AM, geoffrey mendelson <

Post by Shlomi Fish
Hi all,
I wish to go on a Summer trip to Europe (flight to Istanbul and then
ROTFL.
Not only do I not think this belongs on this list, but it's ridiculous.

Why do you feel it does not belong on this list? Many people here offer
jobs or ask for jobs, and my offer can provide a lot of promotion and
publicity to a company/individual/organisation who wishes to sponsor me.

Regarding "ridiculous" there is
http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=same-ideas-as-everybody-else
:

«

If you have the same ideas as everybody else, but have them one week
earlier than everyone else - then you will be hailed as a visionary. But if
you have them five years earlier, you will be named a lunatic.

»

Some of the things I predicted and/or projected are:

* http://www.advogato.org/article/361.html - world-editable screenplays for
films back in 2001 - I was told it will likely not going to work, but now
there are many screenplay projects which use wiki-style interfaces, and
there quite a many successful world-editable-or-almost-world-editable wikis
out there (e.g: the Wikimedia project, the Wikias,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_Tropes ).

* http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/human-hacking/ - in this story I
describe FOSS (and to a lesser extent open content/culture) geeks, and
especially female geeks, as chic, intelligent, attractive, socially
capable, and sexually assertive, and not only are they mainstream, but they
are the alphas - the constant object of attraction and often jealousy of
their peers.

Back after I finished writing it in 2004 and publicised it for scrutiny on
the linux-elitists mailing list -
http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/human-hacking/conclusions/#review--modus-operandi
- I was criticised for making it look like being a FOSS/open-culture hacker
was a gateway to popularity, but now it is quite common all around the
world, as exemplified by the success of
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Bang_Theory , and not only are almost
all attractive female attracted to geeks, but most of them are geeky[Geeky]
themselves, *and* yet they are not socially awkward or sexually inept.

[Geeky] - see http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=401 for
what is a geek , as well as what Paul Graham wrote about amateurs and
hackers.

Post by Shlomi Fish
If I were in a position to sponsor anyone for more than a felafel at a
stand up kiosk, I would consider this so unreasonable that it's just
laughable. As I said, IF I were going to fund someone, I might consider a
plan that includes 2 $1,000 airplane tickets, and about $1,000 a week for
hotel, food, transportation within each country and train fare to the next
country, for a week in a country to give 4-5 FOSS lectures, and then move
on. You probably could start in the Irish Republic and bounce along to the
Russian Republic which would take around 15-20 weeks.

My lectures are not only about FOSS - they are also about free/open
culture/content, and mix and match other topics such as
love/romance/relationships, action, humour, history, science, amateur
philosophy, etc. See:

http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/

Anyway, you are right that I probably overestimated the cost and can
survive on much less.

Regarding Ireland -> Russia - I'm not interested only in software
development hubs, but in general - every centre of commerce is game for me:
Rome, Athens, Istanbul, Berlin, London, Madrid, Barcelona, Paris,
Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Oslo, Stockholm, Vienna, Riga, Vilnius, Budapest,
Bucharest, etc. etc.

Post by Shlomi Fish
Or you could the same thing for about 1.5 times the money in the US, which
would take an entire year, one week per state.

I'm:

1. Not going to .us any time soon.

2. Not interested in being 100% comprehensive.

Post by Shlomi Fish
But not just for a vacation, or for sponsorship opportunity, you would
have to show off your operating system that lots of people use, or your
office suite, Nobel Prize, or Olympic Medal.

I have many stories/screenplays, many aphorisms, quotes, Chuck Norris/etc.
factoids, bits, programs, etc. Many people told me that they recognise my
homepage and especially its EvilPHish emblem (See
http://www.shlomifish.org/meta/FAQ/#evilphish-emblem ) and someone told me
that I also look exactly like he though I would.

And part of the reason why I'm going on tour is to gain more recognition
and to practice my stand-up-philosophy.

Post by Shlomi Fish
No use writing an editor, no one is interested in paying RMS to speak,
especially since he, as president of the FSF, ex ex *officio*
<https://www.google.co.il/search?es_sm=122&q=ex+officio&spell=1&sa=X&ei=yFi2U4mZIIK00wXM_IDQDg&ved=0CBkQvwUoAA>,
announced he was supporting the Palestinian Boycott of Israel.

I didn't write an editor, but I wrote a lot of other useful software apps:

* http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/

*
http://blogs.perl.org/users/shlomi_fish/2013/03/ann-my-transition-from-software-developer-to-writerentertaineramateur-philosopherinternet-celebrity.html

Quoting from it:

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
How to Achieve World Domination

A lot of people think that the proper way to achieve world domination is to
create an architecture that will solve the whole world's problems and then
some <http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000018.html>. We've
been seeing quite a few of them since *Joel on Software* wrote this
article: Ruby, Google Go, Node.js, Mozilla's Rust, Clojure, Scala, Perl 6,
etc. Some of them have or will mature to something truly nice, or have
inspired a lot of features in other languages, but it's hard for
plain-old-single-you to compete with them, and here is something
interesting: not too many people want them.

What do people want? Chuck Norris/etc. factoids, lolcats and other
captioned images, funny cat videos, parodies of *My Little Pony: Friendship
is Magic* (♥), photos of attractive (or even not too attractive) men and
women, screencasts of games or other programs (including many open source
programs), photos of scenery, new and improved recipes for preparing food
(and of course - tasty food itself), new, old or renovated jokes, and some
interesting tales and anecdotes from your life. And naturally - programs
that can will scratch an itch - however small.

Some people told me that my solver for Freecell and other solitaire games,
simply called Freecell Solver <http://fc-solve.shlomifish.org/> is useless,
but it's not - it's just a niche program. And I received hundreds of
E-mails about it. Furthermore, given that Freecell is (or used to be) a big
phenomenon in Israel, where many boys and girls starting from 18 found
themselves playing it on the Israeli military
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces> computers out of
boredom, then the fact that I have written a solver for it, has impressed
many people I talked with or met, including some attractive (both
physically and intellectually) young ladies (or what people may refer to as
"hot chicks"), and they ended up asking me about how it was written, and
which algorithms it employed.

So Freecell Solver was one of my most successful programs, not despite
being a niche program, but because of it. Niche programs own. Not only
that, but niche everything is great. Many people whom I referred to my
stories <http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/stories/> helped themselves to
the screenplay Star Trek: "We, the Living Dead"
<http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Star-Trek/We-the-Living-Dead/> *because*
it contained Star Trek in the name, and because there are quite a few fans
of the *Star Trek* franchise and worlds.

The more of a niche artwork you write, the more a large subset of those who
like it, are likely to pay attention to it, try it out, and enjoy it. For
more information, see Eric Sink's excellent and inspiring essay "How to get
people talking about your product"
<http://www.ericsink.com/articles/Buzz.html>. For example, DuckDuckGo
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuckDuckGo> was originally marketed as a
search engine by Perl geeks, and for Perl geeks, and it was a good
marketing decision because the Perl community is small, cohesive and is at
a good strategical position to influence other communities. Now, many
people who are not Perl programmers, are using it, as well as, or even in
preference to Google, but choosing Perl was a good strategical decision. We
can expect that with the future growth of DuckDuckGo, that it will use more
performant technologies than Perl more and more, but it will still owe some
of its initial success to be a Perl product.
Regarding RMS - I realise he became a persona non-grata in Israel and among
some pro-Israeli Jews or non-Jews, but:

1. He is still a great man and a talented speaker (even if he is a very
quirky fellow - or because of it).

2. His decision was acceptable given the circumstance.

3. I don't want to hold a grudge against him forever, because
vindictiveness is immature. "To err is human, to forgive divine." - see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin .

4. Other people who wrote competing text editors can still be respected if
their editors are successful. As usual with most programs out there, most
programs fail to gain a critical mass, but a minority of them are
successful. Bram Moolenaar is very respected for writing Vim, which became
the Emacs of vi clones, and I Respect the developers of Sublime Text even
though I dislike the fact that it is non-FOSS. Some software niches don't
have a visible dominant alternative, e.g: window managers/desktops.

================

Thanks again and I hope I clarified everything now.

Regards,

-- Shlomi Fish

[Ori Idan]

Ok, I'll jump on this wagon,
I also want sponsorship, I ask for half the amount that Shlomi is asking.
I will use the money to buy a sailing yacht and sail around the world, Ok
maybe not around the world but at least in the Mediterranean.
In return to this generous sponsorship I will put the name of the company
on the sails of the yacht.
Note that sail areas is around 30 sqr. meters so there is a huge area for a
big add.
Any takers?

N.B. regard this message a humor (although I would not resist to really get
such donation) I already have my own company, however this company's
earnings at this point allow me to sponsor a little more then Falafel dish
at a Kiosk stand, it still does not allow me to sponsor neither my own
yacht nor Shlomi's trip.
--
Ori Idan

Post by Shlomi Fish
Hi Geoffrey,
hope you had a great Shabbath by the time you're reading it.
You're raising some interesting points which I'd like to address, and I
apologise if I weren't clear and explicit before.
On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 10:35 AM, geoffrey mendelson <

Post by Shlomi Fish
Hi all,
I wish to go on a Summer trip to Europe (flight to Istanbul and then
ROTFL.
Not only do I not think this belongs on this list, but it's ridiculous.

Why do you feel it does not belong on this list? Many people here offer
jobs or ask for jobs, and my offer can provide a lot of promotion and
publicity to a company/individual/organisation who wishes to sponsor me.
Regarding "ridiculous" there is
http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=same-ideas-as-everybody-else
«
If you have the same ideas as everybody else, but have them one week
earlier than everyone else - then you will be hailed as a visionary. But if
you have them five years earlier, you will be named a lunatic.
»
* http://www.advogato.org/article/361.html - world-editable screenplays
for films back in 2001 - I was told it will likely not going to work, but
now there are many screenplay projects which use wiki-style interfaces, and
there quite a many successful world-editable-or-almost-world-editable wikis
out there (e.g: the Wikimedia project, the Wikias,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_Tropes ).
* http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/human-hacking/ - in this story I
describe FOSS (and to a lesser extent open content/culture) geeks, and
especially female geeks, as chic, intelligent, attractive, socially
capable, and sexually assertive, and not only are they mainstream, but they
are the alphas - the constant object of attraction and often jealousy of
their peers.
Back after I finished writing it in 2004 and publicised it for scrutiny on
the linux-elitists mailing list -
http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/human-hacking/conclusions/#review--modus-operandi
- I was criticised for making it look like being a FOSS/open-culture hacker
was a gateway to popularity, but now it is quite common all around the
world, as exemplified by the success of
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Bang_Theory , and not only are
almost all attractive female attracted to geeks, but most of them are
geeky[Geeky] themselves, *and* yet they are not socially awkward or
sexually inept.
[Geeky] - see http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=401 for
what is a geek , as well as what Paul Graham wrote about amateurs and
hackers.

Post by Shlomi Fish
If I were in a position to sponsor anyone for more than a felafel at a
stand up kiosk, I would consider this so unreasonable that it's just
laughable. As I said, IF I were going to fund someone, I might consider a
plan that includes 2 $1,000 airplane tickets, and about $1,000 a week for
hotel, food, transportation within each country and train fare to the next
country, for a week in a country to give 4-5 FOSS lectures, and then move
on. You probably could start in the Irish Republic and bounce along to the
Russian Republic which would take around 15-20 weeks.

My lectures are not only about FOSS - they are also about free/open
culture/content, and mix and match other topics such as
love/romance/relationships, action, humour, history, science, amateur
http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/
Anyway, you are right that I probably overestimated the cost and can
survive on much less.
Regarding Ireland -> Russia - I'm not interested only in software
Rome, Athens, Istanbul, Berlin, London, Madrid, Barcelona, Paris,
Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Oslo, Stockholm, Vienna, Riga, Vilnius, Budapest,
Bucharest, etc. etc.

Post by Shlomi Fish
Or you could the same thing for about 1.5 times the money in the US,
which would take an entire year, one week per state.

1. Not going to .us any time soon.
2. Not interested in being 100% comprehensive.

Post by Shlomi Fish
But not just for a vacation, or for sponsorship opportunity, you would
have to show off your operating system that lots of people use, or your
office suite, Nobel Prize, or Olympic Medal.

I have many stories/screenplays, many aphorisms, quotes, Chuck Norris/etc.
factoids, bits, programs, etc. Many people told me that they recognise my
homepage and especially its EvilPHish emblem (See
http://www.shlomifish.org/meta/FAQ/#evilphish-emblem ) and someone told
me that I also look exactly like he though I would.
And part of the reason why I'm going on tour is to gain more recognition
and to practice my stand-up-philosophy.

Post by Shlomi Fish
No use writing an editor, no one is interested in paying RMS to speak,
especially since he, as president of the FSF, ex ex *officio*
<https://www.google.co.il/search?es_sm=122&q=ex+officio&spell=1&sa=X&ei=yFi2U4mZIIK00wXM_IDQDg&ved=0CBkQvwUoAA>,
announced he was supporting the Palestinian Boycott of Israel.

* http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/
*
http://blogs.perl.org/users/shlomi_fish/2013/03/ann-my-transition-from-software-developer-to-writerentertaineramateur-philosopherinternet-celebrity.html
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
How to Achieve World Domination
A lot of people think that the proper way to achieve world domination is
to create an architecture that will solve the whole world's problems and
then some <http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000018.html>.
We've been seeing quite a few of them since *Joel on Software* wrote this
article: Ruby, Google Go, Node.js, Mozilla's Rust, Clojure, Scala, Perl 6,
etc. Some of them have or will mature to something truly nice, or have
inspired a lot of features in other languages, but it's hard for
plain-old-single-you to compete with them, and here is something
interesting: not too many people want them.
What do people want? Chuck Norris/etc. factoids, lolcats and other
Friendship is Magic* (♥), photos of attractive (or even not too
attractive) men and women, screencasts of games or other programs
(including many open source programs), photos of scenery, new and improved
recipes for preparing food (and of course - tasty food itself), new, old or
renovated jokes, and some interesting tales and anecdotes from your life.
And naturally - programs that can will scratch an itch - however small.
Some people told me that my solver for Freecell and other solitaire games,
simply called Freecell Solver <http://fc-solve.shlomifish.org/> is
useless, but it's not - it's just a niche program. And I received hundreds
of E-mails about it. Furthermore, given that Freecell is (or used to be) a
big phenomenon in Israel, where many boys and girls starting from 18 found
themselves playing it on the Israeli military
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces> computers out of
boredom, then the fact that I have written a solver for it, has impressed
many people I talked with or met, including some attractive (both
physically and intellectually) young ladies (or what people may refer to as
"hot chicks"), and they ended up asking me about how it was written, and
which algorithms it employed.
So Freecell Solver was one of my most successful programs, not despite
being a niche program, but because of it. Niche programs own. Not only
that, but niche everything is great. Many people whom I referred to my
stories <http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/stories/> helped themselves to
the screenplay Star Trek: "We, the Living Dead"
<http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Star-Trek/We-the-Living-Dead/> *because*
it contained Star Trek in the name, and because there are quite a few fans
of the *Star Trek* franchise and worlds.
The more of a niche artwork you write, the more a large subset of those
who like it, are likely to pay attention to it, try it out, and enjoy it.
For more information, see Eric Sink's excellent and inspiring essay "How
to get people talking about your product"
<http://www.ericsink.com/articles/Buzz.html>. For example, DuckDuckGo
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuckDuckGo> was originally marketed as a
search engine by Perl geeks, and for Perl geeks, and it was a good
marketing decision because the Perl community is small, cohesive and is at
a good strategical position to influence other communities. Now, many
people who are not Perl programmers, are using it, as well as, or even in
preference to Google, but choosing Perl was a good strategical decision. We
can expect that with the future growth of DuckDuckGo, that it will use more
performant technologies than Perl more and more, but it will still owe some
of its initial success to be a Perl product.
Regarding RMS - I realise he became a persona non-grata in Israel and
1. He is still a great man and a talented speaker (even if he is a very
quirky fellow - or because of it).
2. His decision was acceptable given the circumstance.
3. I don't want to hold a grudge against him forever, because
vindictiveness is immature. "To err is human, to forgive divine." - see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin .
4. Other people who wrote competing text editors can still be respected if
their editors are successful. As usual with most programs out there, most
programs fail to gain a critical mass, but a minority of them are
successful. Bram Moolenaar is very respected for writing Vim, which became
the Emacs of vi clones, and I Respect the developers of Sublime Text even
though I dislike the fact that it is non-FOSS. Some software niches don't
have a visible dominant alternative, e.g: window managers/desktops.
================
Thanks again and I hope I clarified everything now.
Regards,
-- Shlomi Fish
--
------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
Chuck Norris helps the gods that help themselves.
Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
_______________________________________________
Linux-il mailing list
http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il

[Shlomi Fish]

Silly spam stuff.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Shlomi Fish <shlomif-l9KC3OxpiO/***@public.gmane.org>
Date: Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: Which company or individual can sponsor me on a summer trip to
Europe?
To: Ori Idan <ori-RdxWQVHs3mh9NdQMujDE2GZHpeb/A1Y/@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Shlomi Fish <shlomif-***@public.gmane.org>, Linux-IL <linux-il-NSemkxREmS1YZAO8hgG6+***@public.gmane.org>


Hi Ori,

On Sun, 6 Jul 2014 06:49:06 +0300

Post by Ori Idan
Ok, I'll jump on this wagon,
I also want sponsorship, I ask for half the amount that Shlomi is asking.
I will use the money to buy a sailing yacht and sail around the world, Ok
maybe not around the world but at least in the Mediterranean.
In return to this generous sponsorship I will put the name of the company
on the sails of the yacht.
Note that sail areas is around 30 sqr. meters so there is a huge area for a
big add.
Any takers?
N.B. regard this message a humor (although I would not resist to really get
such donation)

It was kinda funny, in the same way that my Chuck Norris/etc. factoids (see
http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/shlomif-factoids.html ) parody a
lot
of logical or philosophical truisms. And I gently parody Chuck Norris
factoids
themselves, with Summer Glau factoids.

Post by Ori Idan
I already have my own company, however this company's
earnings at this point allow me to sponsor a little more then Falafel dish
at a Kiosk stand, it still does not allow me to sponsor neither my own
yacht nor Shlomi's trip.

I wouldn't mind an invitation for a meal or a drink (with a chat - see:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shlomif/14354321309/ ), but perhaps you should
rethink your strategy. A good action hero (a.k.a a "hacker") knows how to
change
direction, perhaps understanding that many beliefs held in the past for
years
or decades are wrong now.

Here are some business models which i believe are sustainable:

1. Collect donations or ask for money for public appearances in advance -
see
https://plus.google.com/+ShlomiFish/posts/GUpTuA6641x .

2. The Flickr model - charge people for a premium model.

3. The Bandcamp/Humble-Bundle model - pay what you want (people can be very
generous).

4. The cloud model - pay for hosting or a MMORPG account
(World-of-Warcraft/etc.) or whatever.

5. Pay to liberate - collect money to make a CC-by-nc-sa work CC-by/etc.

Regards,

-- Shlomi Fish


--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
Chuck Norris/etc. Facts - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/

Judaism: God knows you will do shit, does nothing to prevent it, but makes
you
take the blame for it anyways.

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .

[geoffrey mendelson]

But your, Geoff, incendiary remarks re RMS, are quite out of place.
RMS' laudable stance on BDS is quite irrelevant to this list, in my
opinion.

Incendiary or not, his actions did have an effect upon the FOSS community.

Besides any direct effect in relation to RMS , the FSS and project GNU,
which is debatable, it caused Larry Ellison, who is a big supporter of
Israel in general and Sderot in particular to look elsewhere for his
open source aspirations.

By the time Oracle bought SUN, Solaris had become almost another Linux
distro. It included the SUN UNIX Kernel, and a lot of SUN proprietary
stuff, but more than half of it was project GNU software. You could see
that the intention was to replace the UNIX code with the GNU
alternatives. SUN also released a copy of their UNIX code as open
source, but not under GNU for legal reasons (most of it was already
under BSD license).

So Oracle dropped the open source Solaris version, it still exists, but
there is very little interest or support for it, and the GNU code is
slowly being replaced with non open source UNIX code or BSD code.

BUT the biggest effect was that Open Office, which was supposed to be
given to the FSF to help them replace their editor with something
useful, never happened.

Instead it went to the Apache Foundation and has been released under
their BSDish license.

So Marc, his actions may have been laudable or not, and my comments may
have been incendiary or not, but in the end it means that we are even
more so stuck with that f'ing editor. :-(

Geoff.

[E.S. Rosenberg]

Re:all
//Taking flamebait... after a crazy topic lets have a crazy flamewar on
Israeli politics because we have nothing better to do with our lives.

But your, Geoff, incendiary remarks re RMS, are quite out of place. RMS'
laudable stance on BDS is quite irrelevant to this list, in my opinion.
I hope that was sarcastic, because his stance is that of a coward.

That said almost anyone with some "Sechel Yashar" knows RMS is bat shit
crazy (just like the BDS movement but that's OT).
Yes, he was part of the start of a great movement and for that we need to
be grateful but we don't need to listen to every word he has to say, if we
did most of the people on this list would probably have to stop using a
considerable amount of their daily digital conveniences.

Flame away,
Eliyahu - אליהו

Incendiary or not, his actions did have an effect upon the FOSS community.
Besides any direct effect in relation to RMS , the FSS and project GNU,
which is debatable, it caused Larry Ellison, who is a big supporter of
Israel in general and Sderot in particular to look elsewhere for his open
source aspirations.
By the time Oracle bought SUN, Solaris had become almost another Linux
distro. It included the SUN UNIX Kernel, and a lot of SUN proprietary
stuff, but more than half of it was project GNU software. You could see
that the intention was to replace the UNIX code with the GNU alternatives.
SUN also released a copy of their UNIX code as open source, but not under
GNU for legal reasons (most of it was already under BSD license).
So Oracle dropped the open source Solaris version, it still exists, but
there is very little interest or support for it, and the GNU code is slowly
being replaced with non open source UNIX code or BSD code.
BUT the biggest effect was that Open Office, which was supposed to be
given to the FSF to help them replace their editor with something useful,
never happened.
Instead it went to the Apache Foundation and has been released under their
BSDish license.
So Marc, his actions may have been laudable or not, and my comments may
have been incendiary or not, but in the end it means that we are even more
so stuck with that f'ing editor. :-(
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
Jerusalem Israel.
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[geoffrey mendelson]

Anyway, the GPLv3 or whatever licence the GNU sub-projects have does
not prevent me from using GNU software, so that's it.

The interesting point is that outside of a relatively small group of
developers project GNU has no bearing on anything. Free (as in beer)
software existed long before RMS, open source software, including
operating systems, existed long before Linux, or even BSD. And it
continues to exist long after.

I doubt that anyone one this list, or any other list for that matter,
runs 100% GPL licensed software on their computers. They may be running
only free and open source software, but I am sure some of it has a BSD
type, or other license.

So to answer the question someone posed, would we be running the same
thing as we are now if RMS never existed? Probably not. Something very
close, YES. Would LINUX have existed? Maybe. Maybe Linus would have
spent his time improving the free. open source, BSD instead. We actually
may have been doing better because a lot of time and effort was spent in
the 1990's producing GPL'ed version of BSD utilites that could have been
spent elsewhere.

Geoff.

[Tzafrir Cohen]

Post by geoffrey mendelson

Anyway, the GPLv3 or whatever licence the GNU sub-projects have
does not prevent me from using GNU software, so that's it.

The interesting point is that outside of a relatively small group of
developers project GNU has no bearing on anything. Free (as in beer)
software existed long before RMS, open source software, including
operating systems, existed long before Linux, or even BSD. And it
continues to exist long after.
I doubt that anyone one this list, or any other list for that
matter, runs 100% GPL licensed software on their computers. They may
be running only free and open source software, but I am sure some of
it has a BSD type, or other license.

The GNU system was intended to include X11 and TeX, so I doubt it if
that was actually a goal.

Post by geoffrey mendelson
So to answer the question someone posed, would we be running the
same thing as we are now if RMS never existed? Probably not.
Something very close, YES. Would LINUX have existed? Maybe. Maybe
Linus would have spent his time improving the free. open source, BSD
instead. We actually may have been doing better because a lot of
time and effort was spent in the 1990's producing GPL'ed version of
BSD utilites that could have been spent elsewhere.

There wasn't that much good BSD code out there when the GNU project
started. BSD started provided a complete system at the beginning of the
1990-s. And shortly thereafter it got into a trial with AT&T. Also
shortly after development was halted and much of it moved to proprietary
forks. By then the basic system for Linux to use (sans kernel) was GNU.

[geoffrey mendelson]

Post by Tzafrir Cohen
There wasn't that much good BSD code out there when the GNU project
started. BSD started provided a complete system at the beginning of
the 1990-s. And shortly thereafter it got into a trial with AT&T. Also
shortly after development was halted and much of it moved to
proprietary forks. By then the basic system for Linux to use (sans
kernel) was GNU.

All I know is that in 1990 I bought an AT&T UNIX system which included
the AT&T KERNEL, a lot of closed source software and a lot of open
source BSD utilities. There was lots of open source programs for UNIX,
many of them were public domain (similar to the BSD license). It did
have X windows on it, but with my 2 meg of RAM 386SX, it would not run.

By 1995, I was purchasing CD ROMs, with BSD (scrubbed after the
lawsuit), which came with a large library of UNIX code, and LINUX
distros (more than one), which came with the BSD libraries.

GCC did not come into general use (or at all AFAIK) until SUN started
selling Solaris, because SUNOS required you to compile and link modules
to change KERNEL parameters, so it came with a C compiler and linker.

System 5 UNIX did not, you had to have a linker, but not a compiler, so
the C compiler was not included and cost a lot of money. GCC was
popularized so that people could compile things on their SUNS without
spending a lot of money for a compiler.

So from my point of view, based on the early 1990's BSD was it, not
Linux, and the GPL was not really important then. You could happily run
an open source BSD system without any GPL'ed code, and except for the
Linux KERNEL. happily run a Linux system without any. Not counting all
of those SUN computers that had come one the surplus market when they
went to SPARC and then went to the pizzabox systems.

Geoff.

[Nadav Har'El]

Post by geoffrey mendelson
All I know is that in 1990 I bought an AT&T UNIX system which
included the AT&T KERNEL, a lot of closed source software and a lot
of open source BSD utilities. There was lots of open source programs
for UNIX, many of them were public domain (similar to the BSD
license). It did have X windows on it, but with my 2 meg of RAM
386SX, it would not run.

In 1990, I was also using AT&T SVr4 on a 386sx. There was no
"open source phenonmenon" at the time - the Open Source world
mostly included GNU, Unix stuff from Berkeley (BSD, Vi, TCL/TK, etc.),
Columbia University (Kermet), MIT (X11), and little more.

GNU was definitely a big piece of the open source world at the
time - if not the biggest.

Post by geoffrey mendelson
By 1995, I was purchasing CD ROMs, with BSD (scrubbed after the
lawsuit), which came with a large library of UNIX code, and LINUX
distros (more than one), which came with the BSD libraries.
GCC did not come into general use (or at all AFAIK) until SUN
started selling Solaris, because SUNOS required you to compile and
link modules to change KERNEL parameters, so it came with a C
compiler and linker.

In 1992, I was using SunOS, and although I loved it, I quickly
found myself piecementally replacing pieces of it by free software,
most of it GNU. By 1994, I was using almost exclusively GNU tools -
the GNU fileutils instead of the SunOS (BSD-based) ones, GNU groff
instead of AT&T troff, GNU Emacs, Gnu make, Gnu bison instead of yacc,
and yes, Gcc and the GNU linker utilities. GNU had a huge imact on
my computing in the early 1990s, though definitely not the only free
software I used (I also used X11 and Tcl/TK, for example).

Post by geoffrey mendelson
System 5 UNIX did not, you had to have a linker, but not a compiler,
so the C compiler was not included and cost a lot of money. GCC was
popularized so that people could compile things on their SUNS
without spending a lot of money for a compiler.

I had AT&T SVr4 *with* a compiler, so this was not an issue for me,
but gcc was simply *better*, and got better every day, while the SVr4
C compiler was buggy, outdated, and never improved.

Another great thing going for the GNU project stuff was excellent
documentation - which sadly didn't inspire GNU's followers :(

[Shlomi Fish]

Hi Orna,

I'm thinking of renting a room for Stand-up philosophy sessions where
people can donate money at any time.

Thanks for letting me reply to the list . I opted for that.

Regards,

-- Shlomi Fish

Shlomi,
You said you were interested in commerce centers. How about making your
offer directly commercial: instead of asking for a sponsorship in Israel
(and repay it in a not-well-defined coin), seek a sponsorship from those
who wish to attend your talks, and repay them with a hard coin of letting
them enjoy your talks.
I am writing to you in private, but it is ok if you would like to take
this back to the list.
Orna

Post by Shlomi Fish
Hi all,
I wish to go on a Summer trip to Europe (flight to Istanbul and then
1. Eat good food and drinks.
2. Have a good company of people I know from Freenode or other social
media outlets, as well as people I just met.
3. Have clean, creative, fun.
At age 37 (I'm 1977 born) I want to start living a little.
For this I need the sponsorship of a company or individual. What I will
1. Being proud to be sponsored by the company and speaking its praise.
2. Donate some of the revenues from my activities, such as Stand-up
philosophy ( https://plus.google.com/+ShlomiFish/posts/GUpTuA6641x ),
revenues from screenplays and stories, donations, paid invitations, etc.
back to the sponsor.
3. Contribute to the company's social media presence.
----
For now I think I'll need between 200,000 USD and 500,000 USD, as well as
finding a paid escort/guide. It's also first-come-first-served.
If you or your company can do that, please contact me via E-mail at
.
https://plus.google.com/+ShlomiFish/posts/i5Z8XdqTdwE
This took an unexpected turn as it progressed.
Regards and thanks,
-- Shlomi Fish
--
------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
Chuck Norris helps the gods that help themselves.
Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
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--
Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda.
http://ladypine.org